Category: philosophy/religion topics
Hello. I've heard so much talk about "spending time with god". But the question is, how do I do this? I know that bible reading and prayer are crucial keys in devotionals. But, what else is key for a devotional? What do I need for one? I'm (surprisingly) new in the devotional thing. So, how does this thing work?
Personally I think it's an attitude thing. i know people who will not read their Bible one chapter past the point their devotional tells them to.
If you want to get devotional books you can, but just remember they should be used as a guide, not as the main thing. Perhaps also google Bible reading plans?
Kate
Allow your reading to mean something. The bible is just a book of words until we put its teachings into practice. To devote one's self to God is to strive to be like his son. Reading the bible, praying, fasting ... they are all wonderful and essencial elements. But studying the scriptures to gain an understanding of their words, striving to implement their teachings and providing charitable service as the pure love of Christ...they will hep you grow closer to God.
It doesn't. That's the simple answer to your question of how does it work.
If you want to do something worth your time, become a better person. Have too much time on your hands, instead of kneeling and mumbling into thin air, try volunteering somewhere. Find that doesn't fulfill you, try something else that does, like reading a book, a good book, not the good book, which is not good at all.
One thing I've noticed about religious people who try so hard to be devotional is that they are full of guilt. I know a girl who tries so hard to be a good christian, but smokes cigarettes. Every single time she lights a cigarette, she thinks of what a horrible, weak, shameful person she is. Don't set yourself up for that.
If you want to be devoted to something, be devoted to the world around you, the people around you, to yourself. Make your life better, and make it memorable. Make your life extraordinary, and I can promise you that you will be immortal.
Gandi was not a christian, so by all definitions he would not go to heaven. By christian standards he is not immortal, but his name is still being talked about, his writings are still being read, his ideas are still being discussed. That is immortality.
Don't waste your time and your emotion and your hard work begging for forgiveness you don't need from an invisible man in the sky. You have an amazing, incredible, beautiful, wonderful world around you that you don't value because you are focusing too much on either thanking god for putting it there, or on trying to make it to the next world. Your scarfing down the dinner just to get to the dessert, and not stopping to realize the sweet taste of the wine you have now.
If you want absolution, find it in the beauty that surrounds you. You don't need to find it in the mythology of religion.
well said, Cody; thank you.
That is your oppinion Cody, and that's your choice to believe that way. However, I will pray for you anyway :)
I too, am having trouble getting myself to do daily devotionals. I mean too, but never really know where to start. I found a Bible app for my IPhone, and there's something about devotionals on that. I'll check it out and let you know how it goes. :)
Jenna
Honestly you athiests, why do you bother? WHy are you so bent on challenging other people's beliefs? Are you just here to raise contention, or are you actually trying to be helpful in your own way? I don't know what a devotional in this particular sense means, but I do kno that, even if God didn't exist, believing in him and treating people well - living for others ... is still good. It still provides a sense of purpose and sollace. Not everyperson who believes in Christianity or any other religion for that matter is a messed up, judgmental person.
Oh, so your perfectly allowed to give advice on the subject. Its absolutely acceptible for you to spout judgements, to criticize, and to direct. However, anyone who might possibly have presented a different opinion than the one you cling too, that's just not acceptible. Is that what your saying?
Because my opinions, and the opinions of others like me, differ from yours, and don't support the belief in a god, suddenly they should be barred from the conversation? are you so insecure that you can't even handle someone posting a differing opinion on a board that doesn't even involve you?
Besides, if you'd even taken the time to absorb the words I put in that post, you would have realize that my entire point was, "be a good person and that's devotion enough". Nowhere in there did I say christians aren't good people. All i said was you didn't need a god to be good. And that he is not necessarily the only path to immortality.
all I did was present a different opinion, he doesn't have to take it, and honestly I doubt he'll even consider it, but for you to say that I shouldn't bother, is just ludicrous. Why do you even bother, are you so hell bent on bringing others into the folds of your religion that you can't just sit back and shut up about it?
I have to wonder how long its going to be before you realize that you and I are doing the exact same thing. Your rooting for your team, and I'm rooting for my team. Your the only one who is being childish enough to say that you don't like it when someone cheers louder than you do.
Seriously, if that is the measure of your resolve, maybe you have some underlying questions in your faith, maybe you need to spend a little more time on your knees, mumbling into thin air, rather than criticizing someone who is absolutely firm in their beliefs, and totally fearless of expressing them.
And Guardian, the word is "atheists," not "athiests."
seriously, blind guardian? you, a self proclaimed good christian, can sit here and say anyone who has differing beliefs than yourself should shut up and keep them quiet? sure you didn't directly state those words, but in case you're unaware, indirect statements are just as apparent (to those of us who use the ability we're given to look at things logically).
funny that we'd never dream of directing such words towards you; yet, you constantly pick on Cody, myself and others cause we're strongly opposed to religion as a whole and unafraid to express that distaste every chance we get.
and yes, for the record, we love challenging other's beliefs. it's quite an enjoyable part of life; sorry to know you don't embrace it to the extent we do.
Ants....
I don't care that your beliefs differ from mine. You're perfectly entitled to your oppinions. But given the nature of this post, your vocal dismissal of Christianity is rather unnecessary. This wasn't a debate, but a person asking advice from other like-minded people. Lightning, for all your supportive talk about being a "good" person, you still have this tendancy to cast people's religion aside seemingly every chance you get. I don't care that you don't believe in Christianity or any other religion. I don't think you're a bad person for it. But a lot of other people do believe. It's easy enough to answer questions like this without attacking their beliefs.
And Impricator yes, I did spell atheists wrong. At least I'm writing real words unlike a growing number of the internet who seem bent on mutilating the English language.
You think what I wrote is attacking his beliefs? Believe me, if I'd wanted to be offensive, I easily could have; I think I've proven that in other boards. I was trying to give an alternate version of it, and I was trying to do it in a kind way.
I grant you, it doesn't jive with the setting. I mean, it was probably unexpected for an atheist to post here. However, this isn't a christians only club. If he wants to repost this board on another site that is only for christians, I'm sure he can find some. There are many things which I post on atheist only sites, simply because I want to rant, and not have to worry about phrasing my posts in a way that won't leave me defending myself forever. I want to simply yell and scream and throw a fit, and have everybody else go, "Hell yeah, we're right there with you".
On this site you have a myriad of different opinions. For him to post this board here is him saying, "here is my idea, what do you guys think". It just so happened that I was not willing to sit back and let others talk about how he should throw himself deeper and deeper into a world of guilt and hatred for the human spirit and the human mind and the human psychi. I don't agree with that world view, I think it is wrong, and I will do anything within my power to refute and challenge it.
I will not appologize for my beliefs, or my posting them here. Nor, on the other hand, will I ask for you to appologize for posting yours. I will give you the courtesy you have not extended me, and I will allow you to post your particular brand of advice without molestation. It is a pity that the one who is supposedly on shaky moral grounds is being so forthcoming with the kindness; whereas the one who stands in the "word of god" seems incapable of doing so.
As for you, SilverLightening, the bible is the word of God, and like God, is good! The bible says "Whoever is a friend of the world is an enimy of God", And I will NOT turn my back on my faith. God is Good!
Sure, you have different beliefs than me, and I respect that, but I will serve God. Yes. BlindGardian was right. This thread is NOT for debate. If you want to debate, then go debate with your little atheist friends. I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU BASHING CHRISTIANITY! GO PERSICUTE SOMEONE WITH YOUR OWN BELIEFS!
Right... adding nonsenical fuel to the fire....
Kate
What is that supposed to mean adding nonsensical fuel to the fire? I'm not debating, so there's no fuel. Oh, CrazyMusition, thanks for the help. I will definitely google "bible plans, whatever a "bible plan" is.
Your previous response made no sense. Persecute people who agree with you? Say what?
It's a figure of speech LOL!
First, I have said, and am happy to say again for those who didn't hear me the first time, I am an enemy of this fictional idea called god. The idea is false and corrupt, the deeds done in his name, and the intellect that was squandered have set humanity back uncountable years. As if that weren't enough, the acts he commands are evil and cruel, and would make even hitler raise an eyebrow. I will not believe in him, and even if he is proven to exist, I would fight against him with my every breath. For everything he is, and everything he stands for, is evil and cruel and sadistic and wicked.
Now, I presented a thought which was meant only as food for thought. I tried to avoid bashing the bible, or anything like that. I did comment on christians being guilty, but I think we can all agree on that one; you don't confess something you're not guilty about. However, as you decided you will return my gentle, if contrary words with poorly phrased and unkind words of misunderstanding, I will do likewise.
First, it is impossible to debate with people who agree with you, so debating my little atheist friends as you call them, would be pointless.
Secondly, you are the one who put your thoughts on a public forum, you surrendered your right to say it isn't up for debate. if you didn't want it to be debated you should have shut the hell up and not said anything. you can't now whine and pout because someone presented an argument you weren't expecting, and which doesn't completely conform to your way of thinking. If you'd like somewhere you can go to voice your moronic christian and religious opinions, and beg for help from others on how you can better mumble in to thin air and gain absolutely no results save for the false effects you trick yourself into thinking you're receiving, then go and do so somewhere else. Somewhere I, and the rest of the thinking, reasoning, not a slave to a mythological book which condones acts such as rape, slavery, beating of children, and stoning people can't see it. Then, you won't have to deal with us presenting arguments to you that you can't handle because the answers can't be found in your mellenia old book of fairytales.
Lightning, I ask you to hear me out, even if you don't believe what I'm about to say. It's hard for me to have had many posative spiritual and miraculous experiences and believe there's iron in your words. I testify, even if you scoff, that God does exist. I have seen his hand at work, and I have been on the recieving end of his blessings countless times. I have seen men and women united by faith in Christ come together in the spirit of love to provide relief efforts in natural disasters, and for those in need. And I am by no means saying non-religious people aren't capable of that same unity. But God can perform miracles, even if they may be at his disgression. Just one simple example.
My wife went into severe kidney failure to the point that her kidney function was at 0%. Had the doctors not just barely caught it in time, she would have realistically died. As it was she would have needed to be on kidney dialasys to have even a slight chance of making it. The doctors were less than confident. And yet, she was given a blessing by two of our priesthood brethren who had the authority to do so. In that blessing she was told she would recover. When next the doctors examined her, her kidneys were up to 15% functionality. Not long after, they were up to 50. The doctors were baffled. Now it's been three years. She was recently tested again. Hir kidneys are fully functional. So if that wasn't some sort of miracle, what awas it? Mind over matter? a spontanious healing through a sheer act of one's will? A coincidence? ... Okay then, try this one.
2006. I was lured to a Montreal hotel room by a girl who wanted to take my life. We were in love once, but it didn't work out, and I broke it off. She wasn't happy, so she developed this elaborate plot in which she faked a pregnancy. She asked me to participate in an Aboriginal ceremony for the sake of our child. I wanted to be supportive, so I went along with it. This happened three months after I discovered the LDS church.
I'll keep what happened brief. We went to a hotel room (a vergin place neither of us had ever been) to preferm this ceremony. She tricked me into drinking a coctail containing over thirty sleeping tablets. It certainly did relax me, but nothing more. She attempted to glue me down -- yes, glue. Saying it was a particular sap needed for the ritual. Like a fool, i went along with it. I trusted her, even as, in my mind I couldn't quite equate what was happeneding with what she told me would happen. I'm not proud of how foolish I was.
In the end, she held a steak knife to my throat. The moment I felt the prick of the knife, my body was full of adrenolin. I escaped, went downstairs to the hotel lobby. Adrenolin was still running rampent because I wasn't sure who was on her side and who wasn't, since most people including the police were french, and I couldn't understand them.
ANyway I'm rambling. Later, at the hospital, the nurses were amazed I'd even been awake at all. Adrenolin or not, before the knife kissed my throat, I should have been out cold.
I could go on; talk about how, even though I pay tithing, something you and many others would scoff at, I always seem to have enough money for everything we need, no matter what, but I think I've said enough about myself.
Lightning, you are an intelligent human being. I don't think you sput what you do to hear yourself talk. Despite your antitheist beliefs, you've got the basic poing right; be a good person, be kind to others. I I imagine you believe by trying to turn people away from Christianity, you think you're doing them a favor. And I can understand why you feel the way you do, because it was not all that long ago that I was quite against Christianity myself for some of the very reasons you tirelessly point out. But the word of God is a word of peace. What happened in the past were the past mistakes of generations who will be judged in the end according to their works. These terrible things in the bible? Some of them definately happened. People were cruel, wicked and all-together terrible to one another back then. In some areas of the world that hasn't changed much, if at all. The jews? God's Chosen people? They were horrible too. But God never ordered most of the slaughter and other cruelties that went on. Yes, he did order the deaths of people, and I admit that's hard to imagine. But those who died were, to my knowledge, very wicked and people who were making life pretty misserable. By removing them, countless generations were spared the pain and torment that might have been inflicted on them by those slain. The most important thing to remember about the bible, at least according to my church's beliefs anyway is that it was not written for our time. While many of its principles and stories are relatable today, much of what was written was done so for the people of the time. And times were much different then. I have a hard time with much of what went on in the old testament too. It's not a pretty picture. But my church's additional scriptures, the corrections in translation done in the old and new testament paint a slightly different picture. This is why I say to you that God is a being of murcy, peace, love and long-suffering. He is a God of miracles. But we, his children are human beings.
Lightning, you can have doubts if you like. It's only natural. I'm not asking you to believe what I'm telling you without question. And indeed, if "you" have certain passages in the bible you think I'm overlooking and that blatently state God ordered the rapes and stoning of children, I ask you one more time to bring those forward that they may be debated and cleared up. But I ask you for just one thing. Don't do to us Christians what I imagine you'd hate if we did to you. DOn't shove your antitheist beliefs down our throats and say everything we believe is fake and in vain. It's fine you don't believe in what we do. Heck, most of the people reading this forum probably don't believe as I do either. But I ask you to please respect our beliefs, as I respect and try to understand yours.
Wow... profound last two posts... wow...
I agree with you, blindGard1an. God's word is peace. Why I can say that If God wasn't there for me, I would not be alive today. And I swear. If I could give more proof than my written or spoken word, I would. But there is the Word of God; the word of the one that has control of all
There's that pathetic whining about respecting beliefs again! Sorry folks, but respect has to be earned.
Quote from blindncool (post 14)
"I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU BASHING CHRISTIANITY!"
the funny thing is you christians bash others beliefs all the time. I see it on these boards constantly, Hell I see it real life.
you claim you don't want to be persecuted, yet christians persecute others all the time, and have done so for over two millennium.
Christians still oppress homosexuals, atheists, and others of differing faiths. you want respect from us, then maybe christians should learn to respect others first.
Not just that, but why should religion get special treatment? Why is it ok to criticize political issues for example, but not religious ones?
You bring up some points guardian which I feel you deserve answered. I'll tell you how those so called miracles happened without god at all. Its quite simple.
One, your wife was blessed by someone she trusted with her soul. To her, that was an absolute assurance that she was going to get better. It is a common fact that when someone relaxes, and assures themselves that they will get better, they usually do. So when the priests told her she would get better, it allowed her to relax, not worry so much, not stress so much, and let her body fight it more effectively. Plus, I'm pretty sure the doctors gave her some sort of treatment, they don't do that just so they can get the pleasure of poking people with needles.
Second, I have to first ask, what the hell kind of relationship did you have with this woman? As for the miracle, I don't see anything at all. First, she gave you the sleeping pills in a cocktail, meaning that they were extremely deluded, if they'd dissolved at all. Some pills don't dissolve in liquids, that's why they're pills. Also, pills don't act instantaneously. Its not like in the movies when someone can drink something, and then fall over unconscious; you have to digest it first. Then, glue doesn't work well on the human body, so it probably wasn't all that hard to pull yourself off the bed or whatever you were glued to. As for the rest, you answered it yourself, it was adrenalin. No god involved, just human biochemistry.
I have brought up several charges against god, and you saying that he only killed the evil and wicked is absolutely false. Read exodous, where he kills the first born child of every Egyptian. That doesn't mean he killed the first born adult, he killed the first born everything, women, children, old people, adults, even animals. Now, iI hear the excuse a lot, "well he was trying to make a point to pharoah to let the jews go". To which I say, if you have an all powerful being, who can do anything he wishes, and the best way he can come up with to tell pharoah to let the jews go is to kill all the first born children, then your god is cruel, and you shouldn't worship him.
Look at the books of numbers and judges, the story of joshua. God ordered him to slay the pregnant women, the men, the children, everyone but the pretty virgins, who they were to take as slaves. That's really not a nice thing to do in my book, its actually an evil thing to do in my book.
Want some cruelty from the new testament, how about this. He has a son, and he sends this son to earth so that men can beat him, stab him with thorns, drive nails through his arms and legs, then stab him with a spear, all so the sin he caused can be released. Now, most people think that's merciful, but look at it. Who is the one who caused human kind to sin? God gave them curiosity, and he put a tree in the garden that wil kill them, but he doesn't tell them what death is. It seems to me like he set the whole situation up. And even if he didn't, he holds the keys to hell, he made hell. All he'd have to do to wash the sins of man away is to say that they are. He didn't have to murder his own son. That's cruel.
Finally, I have to say this about the mormans. Sure, you have a book that corrects some things, makes everything nice and kind in the old testament, but here's the thing. Your book was written by a 19th century farmer who had been convicted of fraud on numerous occasions prior to this, who was practically elliterate, and who made up a story so unbelievable, that it still baffles my mind to think that people actually believe it. I mean, how did you not laugh the first time someone told you that he went out, dug up some gold plates that an angel told him to dig up, then translated them into english by using the two seeing stones. Then, when some of the book was destroyed, he couldn't just translate them again, he had to get a new tablet, and translate something close, but not entirely the same. How did you not laugh at that? How do you place your faith in that?
I mean, I can tell you a story about ahobbit who finds a ring that can make him go invisible, are you going to put your faith in that too?
@Post25: I agree with you, but for perhaps different reasons.
Those who get special treatment are weakend by that special treatment. If you really wanted to oppose us, you would specially treat us. Frankly anyone who demands that religion stand on its own merits, take no exemptions, carry its own load, will subject religion to the necessary strengthening process the do-or-die response requires.
I personally don't subscribe to any entitlement mentality at all, which does include religion. People dragged from an entitlement mentality do so kicking and screaming, be they religious or wellfare queen.
The only advice I have for some of you who get so bent out of shape by the likes of Cody and Imprecator: Toughen up. Go home, get you a decent pair of pants, put 'em on and pull 'em up.
Does fundamentalism look strong to you? Why, then, are they always crying like wellfare weenies when the check comes late? Do the middle East Terrorists look strong to you? Watch and see just how well they do if and or when, the west migrates to another source for their oil. Just as they are coddled by the oil industry, Western fundamentalists are being coddled by a suite of special rights.
Any of you who are the working blind can attest that opportunity, not special rights, refines anyone or anything. Special rights and privileges in the long run don't do anybody any favors. Persecution does not equate to somebody disliking you. Did Cody come to your house and kick in your door? Drag you into the street? Confiscate your property? All because of your belief?
I didn't think so. Anti-theists? I guess, if they say so. But they're just doing for religion what all entitlements-mentality people ultimately need: your old-fashioned case of a little tough medicine. A demand for answers. An opportunity to succeed or fail. Your churches proudly announce from the loudspeakers about the virtues of the freedom to fail. Here it is, take it, it's all yours. They're not picking on you. It's just time to toughen up and look at the situations we've created and do diligence to fix what's wrong.
And before you go home and weep, you're not the only one. People who challenge policy in the U.S. government and in the military ultimately provide it the same opportunity, to succeed and grow stronger, or weaken and die. And I don't see any of my flotilla mates crying about the Berkley kids, or things that come out. All we talk about ever is how we're going to improve situations. That is manhood. {or womanhood, I suspect}.
Leo, sometimes I have a hard time understanding your words :)
Ok, to get back on the origional topic of this board that has completely been neglected so that people can bash each other's beliefs and rant-- I use the youversion bible app on my phone, and I think you can get it via email too, that has devotionals to do. You get a free account and then you can sign up for devotionals and get email reminders and such to do them. It's really great, and has helped me get closer to God by reading his absolutely true word.
I understand that not everybody believes in God or any religion at all. That's fine. What we all need to remember is that, if you are a Christian, bashing others is not the way to go about helping them see the love of Christ. We need to be kind, loving and not completely scoff at the beliefs of others. We need to pray for them. Whether or not people believe it, God does want to have a personal relationship with each and every one of us. He is not cruel and unfeeling like many people seem to think. He created us and is willing to give up his only son (who is a part of him--Father son Holy Ghost), because he loved us. Jesus came to earth to die for us. If you do not believe this, I am sorry. I can't force you to believe and will not try to do so. I can, however, and will, pray that God shows himself to you, because knowing that you are never alone can go a long way to getting rid of bitterness and anger. I am not saying Christians are all happiness and joy--of course we aren't! However, if you truly believe in God and know his word, then you will be a lot more satisfied in this world than if you are just going through life and waiting to die and be just a bunch of bones under the dirt. What hope is in that?
God bless everybody, whether you believe in him or not. :).
Jen, just as people can talk about devotionals, we also have the right to present another perspective. whether you like it or not, that's the way it goes.
one more thing: who are you to claim we'd be happier if we turned to religion? I'd venture to guess you've never truly thought about what your life would be like without it, cause that absolutely terrifies you. therefore, I'll completely disregard your baseless comments.
Just so you know, to people who say we'd be happier if we turned to religion, I wasn't happier when I did turn to religion. I was miserable, hence my firm atheism now. If I had been happier in my attempting to be religious days, I'd have stuck with them.
actually, I have thought of it. I have had times where I really wasn't sure, but from experiences i have had in my life, one of which being that I was born 4 months early, weighed 1 lb 4 oz.,had a 10% chance of survival, and am still alive 21 years later being one, but by no means the last. I'm done with this conversation. I can't force you to my way of thinking. I'm glad you feel so strongly about your beliefs, but that doesn't mean I can't pray you find happiness in whatever you do. Even if I wish you'd had a good religious experience. I know a lot of Christians today are very hypocritical,l and that saddens me greatly, but not everybody is, and I hope you realize that just because it didn't seem to work for you doesn't mean there isn't a God.
Goodbye.
like ocean dream Jess, I was the unhappiest I've ever been when I had religion in my life.
No, it doesn't mean there is no god, but it also doesn't mean there is. and, pray we find happiness? Really? Apparently, you don't read. Either that, or you think that a God-filled life is the only way to happiness, in which case, what a sad life you must have in reality.
Well I guess we're all presumptuous. We think you're not happy, you think we're sad. Perhaps if we took more time getting to know people on an individual personal level we'd feel less of a need to concern ourselves with defending (or refuting) one another's ideals. Just throwing it out there.
or, maybe those of you who feel you're being personally attacked whenever beliefs that vastly differ from yours are brought up will learn to take a chill pill and realize we're simply stating things as we see them; just as you all claim to be doing when you preach about the wondrous ways god works in your lives.
I have to wonder if saying any person is happier overall with or without religion is trying to paint with a mighty broad brush. I was going to rant earlier about how religion can create so much unnecessary guilt and shame and fear and even hatreds, but maybe that's not everybody's experience. Now, although I've never really been religious, I do believe that my atheism is liberating, just because I'm not under any kind of outside authority, save for the law of the land. There's no governing body telling me what to think or how to feel, even though there are atheist organizations. I'm a non-joiner, so that kind of thing just isn't my bag.
I also want to address the Christian persecution complex. First of all, any of your leaders who tells you you're being persecuted or you're at war is manipulating you and your point of view. Before you say another word about being persecuted or disrespected, you should go on Google and read about how Christians are treated in other parts of the world where Christians are not the majority. You could get killed for being found out to be Christian. Here in America, nope, not gonna happen. What you're experiencing by people criticizing and questioning you is loss of privilege. No, not all of it, but enough of it where people are not going to cater to you and spoil you anymore for being Christian. It'd probably take a nice hefty book to pick over all the reasons why so I'll let others speculate. But when people ask you hard questions and you respond by crying out that you're being disrespected, it makes you look like pathetic whining children who can't stand sharing their marbles with the other kids. Best thing to do is understand that people aren't out to get you as much as they're just treating you like everybody else now. People of minority faiths or none at all have had to prove their point of view and have otherwise been marginalized, usually by Christians in the past. We're used to it, we expect it. Now you get to experience it. Best thing you can do is man up and get over yourselves because although you have lots of privilege left, you do not necessarily run the show or own the carnival anymore, the show and carnival are for all of us. It's everybody's bag of marbles.
I'll say what I said in another thread as regards respect. I'll respect anyone by default until they give me reason not to because I believe my mom raised me right. But respect for anyone has to be earned. I will not automatically respect you because of your religion or your age, and you won't get any more than anyone else gets. But you keep on going on about how everybody is picking on you and you lose respect and you also lose potential followers to your faith. This political tactic must be abandoned if you are to survive and get along with people.
very well said, Chris. thank you.
Yes, I'd agree with that as well. As one of those Christians myself, I have seen the guilt, shame and regret that can potentially come. More often than not however that guilt is instilled by the words and thoughts of mankind, Not by God. I think humanity - religious and otherwise - needs to take a long hard look at itself. We all have rites to discuss our thoughts, dreams and beliefs. It's when our discussions turn to judgment and condescention that tempers flare. And this is something I have seen on these boards time and time again. They have been perpetrated by religious and atheistic alike.
I have no problem with Atheists - I have no problem with Christians not of my particular faith. What I do have problems with are those who actively scorn my beliefs - talk down to me as though I'm stupid or ignorant - tell me how my beliefs can not possibly be right. This isn't persecution, but it is highly disrespectful. Ask probing, even awkward questions (and listen to the whole answers), explain your side of things, produce examples of your reasoning, even testify of your beliefs, atheistic or otherwise. But don't belittle others' beliefs. We can try swaying people if we must, but better to lead by example than draw up points of contention. You want Atheists or others of a different faith to follow Jesus? Show them why they should; don't tell them. Be an example in the things you do, the way you speak and the way you treat others. This goes for anyone attempting to express an idea. Contend against one another and all we do is push others away.
Going back to the whole "who's happier, the religious or not" thing, now maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges but it reminds me of this experience. Now, assuming most people who read this are blind or have some level of visual impairment and maybe even other disabilities, I'll bet you this is a common thing. Here you are, walking somewhere or waiting for something and some stranger comes up to you or just passes you and without a word of introduction, first thing that falls out of their mouth is some musing about how your life is sad or must be somehow harder than theirs because you are blind or otherwise aren't fully able-bodied like they are. So look what happened, here comes some person you don't know from your great Aunt Matilda and they just offered up an observation of your entire quality of life knowing just one thing about you which happens to catch their eye from the external. How does that make you feel? For me, it's not necessarily offensive although I bet it would be for some. But it's painting my whole life experience with a pretty broad brush, plus I want to stop them and say, "you are silly. How can you say you know the quality of my whole life knowing only that I can't see."
Exactly. and yes, that can apply to the religious among us as well as the non-religious. We're not saying you can't possibly be happy with a God. it's just that we, personally, are happier without.
And "That" is perfectly fine. I was extremely happy not knowing about God. It's more than possible. I think that's the case for most people who never knew him. I'm not going to say all of us who get to know God suddenly have an even better life filled with sunshine, rainbows and puppies. I know for me there is at times a much greater sense of responsibility, and I'm a lot more "aware" of myself. That isn't always a nice feeling. Yet for me, I have seen an undeniable improvement in the quality of my life - the people I associate with, the way I think. But that's just me. Not everyone will have or has had the same experience, and that's perfectly fine. The most important thing, I feel is to live a good life; do no harm, only as much good as we can to others. Abhore needless contention, and treat each other with actual respect, even if we don't actually respect one of them. And religious or Atheist, we can all do that.
In theory, TBG, I think you are right, but I have seen both on this site and the world at large a great deal of disrespect coming both from the religious and the non-religious.
A few days ago, a blog I read on a regular basis posted an open letter to Rosie O'Donnell. The reason I am mentioning this is that there was a street preacher who called her something very disrespectful. I haven't seen the whole video, but this blog writer posted on behalf of Christians that this is not the mark of one who follows Christ. While Christians should proclaim the gospel unashamedly, there is no room for name-calling and public humiliation. I just think it was very neat that the writer didn't go back to the fact that Rosie is a lesbian, etc., but went back to the Christian belief that all have sinned - including the writer and the street preacher. I thought it was a very thoughtful blog post, rather than the knee-jerk whiny reaction of "not ALL Christians are like that".
Kate
That is indeed a good thing, Musician. Religious or not, we all have the potential to do good, and evil. Just because one accept Jesus Christ (or believe in any other deity doesn't automatically ensure one's "righteousness". And just because a person doesn't believe in God, doesn't mean they're going to be a wicked person. I've met some wonderful Atheists, and some truly apawling Christians. What we do, why we do it, and how we treat people makes us who we are. This is what I meant in my previous post. I recognize I'm somewhat of an idealist, but I don't really consider that a bad thing.